Isn't it amazing how much of our lives revolve around food? Yes, I could chop food for you to put in your pot, Marisa, but no animal stuff. But then we wouldn't have time to bead so, maybe we can get Jordan and Dad to do the chopping and cooking. (And Erica too, since she doesn't like to bead either but does like to cook.) Maybe Doug would like to join in, too, and you all could have a discussion about "cut the cheese" which I think is an idiom. Idioms are great fun to talk about and many languages have them. And of course, the meaning often changes since it is not a literal meaning. Doug is probably right that "cut the cheese" is a midwest idiom. I keep a list of idioms on the wall in my classroom and the 6th graders really get into finding new ones and then guessing what they mean. Literature from easy picture books to novels are full of idioms. You might have some fun with these in class.
I agree with Doug that Marisa and Jordan should author and illustrate a children's book together. Multiculturalism is really big right now and you will have a first hand experience of Korea.
You have really neat Korean hosts, too. What an experience!
Thanks, Matthew, that's interesting. Our Korean visitor said he had tried to introduce the American casual pattern of referring to people by only their first name (he lived for 15 years in the States), but other Koreans thought he was mad at the people he was addressing in that way, as he said that as a general pattern, the only time a Korean calls another Korean by only their first name is when a superior is mad at someone under them.
It all sounds complicated and a bit precarious. Fortunately, I'm sure they tend to cut foreigners some slack (which, Jordan, is decidedly different than cutting the cheese! :-).
It is quite true that Korean places much more emphasis on titles than English does, and that in a one-on-one situation you can get by without knowing the addressee's actual name. For instance, in class students always call their teacher "seonsaengnim" ("teacher"), which is why they tend to shout "teacher! teacher!" when they want my attention. Technically I should never refer to my principal or vice-principal by any but those titles. You also use only titles when talking to family members (mother, sister, etc... Korean actually has two different words each for "older brother" and "older sister" depending on whether the speaker is male or female, and there are no fewer than five words for "uncle" depending on whether it's your mother or father's brother, and whether it's your mother or father's older brother, younger brother, or brother by marriage!) and these same titles can be applied to random people on the street if you don't know their names. Every male a little bit older than you is your brother and can be "oppa" (if you're a woman) or "hyeong" (if you're a man), and every old woman is "halmeoni" ("grandmother").
However, in Korea it's actually more important that you know someone's name when you're referring to them in the third person. You still use the titles as suffixes, but if I'm talking to one teacher about another teacher at the school, there's no way to make myself understood unless I can say (for example) "Kim Eunki-seonsaengnim told me x" or "I was talking to Yu Hyosuk-seonsaengnim and..." If I don't know the person's name and I try to describe them, I get a string of attempts to confirm who it is and if I don't say "yes" to one of the Korean names that flies by no description will convince them that I mean who they think I might mean. This is particularly problematic because so many people share the same last name; I can't simply say "Mr. Bak" (which is technically how "Park" should be Romanized and pronounced) or "Mrs. I" (which is technically how "Lee" should be Romanized and pronounced) or "Ms. Kim," because more than half of the people at any given institution in Korea are named one of those three things.
I have been told that attempting to call someone by only their last name is something only superiors can do, and that many bosses in Korea have adopted the habit of calling their subordinates by the English titles "Mr. Kim" or "Mrs. Kim." So technically whenever I refer to my teachers this way, I'm actually showing disrespect! Fortunately, I was told in my first week that the Koreans were totally cool with it, and now my calling people "Mr." and "Mrs." seems to have become a part of my Korean personality.
I should stress that all of this is "as I understand it," that is, as I have read about it or based on what Koreans have told me. I'll stop for tonight and give Jordan and Marisa a chance to give their own responses, but I did want to mention that kimchi is an equally interesting and complicated topic: just consider that until recently the hot pepper that is now so integral to the Kimchi-making process was unknown in Asia...!
We recently had a Korean visitor overnight in Amman (late 40s male), who informed us that you don't generally use peoples' names, but rather titles; and that the title / form of address will be based on age and position. Something you guys need to do some research into (and then write about for our benefit). I think it would be complicated, coming from a very "flat" / egalitarian society as we do.
And by the way, Patti had never heard "to cut the cheese," either. Maybe it's a Minnesotan (or, I suspect, Iowan, which crept north) expression?
So, was the "Performance Feminine Fashion" in the pictures, a clothing store or something else? If a clothing store, did Marisa purchase some of that performance feminine fashion?
Marisa, you really should write a series of children's books. It could be the "Marisa & Jordan" series. The first one can be "Marisa & Jordan meet at Bethel, fall in love, and get married." The next one could be "Marisa & Jordan's North Carolina Adventure." Now you could work on "Marisa & Jordan teach English in Korea." You could even have one on your honeymoon, etc. Seriously (except for the titles). You have a great writing voice, and would be an excellent children's lit writer. You & Jordan could illustrate your stories. You ought to do it, really. I'm convinced you'll be a big hit.
We're thrilled you're getting such great cultural/relational adventures. I agree that kimchee is a very interesting phenomenon. Do you know it's history?
Ooh, that sounds like an excellent experience! I've never once regretted taking anyone in Korea up on an offer to do something non-work-related; Korean hospitality is sincere, thorough, and usually delicious. Now I want to go to Jeonju...
I hope that Gunsan does have a pedestrianized downtown area, but I must tell you that it is not a universal feature in Korean cities---for example, Cheongju (which has the same sort of feel as Gunsan) only has a cluster of back alleys surrounding the Dream Plus mall.
I'm not very surprised that you didn't actually learn anyone's name. For some reason, most Koreans tend not to introduce themselves or to say their names once, very quickly, and never use them again. I think that I actually know the names of maybe 25% of the people I interact with on a daily basis, which I feel kind of bad about. (One tactic is to swap e-mail addresses and check the "from" field...)
And yes, it is very strange that Jordan does not know the construction, "to cut the cheese."
In any case I'm quite happy we don't have mean old ladies. I met another nice one at the bus stop yesterday. I think she was trying to ask me where the bus went. Alas, I speak no Korean and just looked at her helplessly, but she didn't attack me with her purse after, so I figure she must be nice.
Actually the thing about mean old ladies in Korea is quite reliably attested to, but it seems to be a primarily Seoul... Seoulite? Seoulian? whatever... phenomenon. I can say that the day I landed a little old lady started fighting to the front of the immigration line, and that once when I was boarding an intercity bus another little old lady shoved her way in front of me (which struck me as extremely odd since these buses have reserved seats). But I haven't seen any of the reported instances of little old ladies simply smiting people down with their heavy handbags. I suppose that Chungju also has a nice elderly population...
So, Marisa, you have that smooth Bible teacher voice that puts people to sleep? Or is it just Korean middle schoolers? Does it work for all your students? I think this calls for more experimentation on your part, to determine who exactly is affected by your voice, and why...
And hurray for the nice old people of Gunsan. Perhaps the other people you've heard from are actually spreading vicious rumors about old people...
I'd just like to add that I feel no need to prove anything and therefore won't be eating jellyfish. I can think of few things I like less than jellyfish. Where are their brains? They're like swimming jelly.
...And now you've put up an extremely cool slideshow with pictures of the mountains and waterfowl and angels and everything, so please disregard my plaintive whines in the previous post and go check out Jordan pumping iron. (Within the constraints of the little cage that prevents him from stealing the barbell, of course.)
Also, that picture of Donguri on your Flikr album is incredibly cute.
You've done a great job of capturing the feel of my city (although it's a pity that the mountains become largely invisible thanks to Youtube's video resolution... which is not your fault). But why do I sound like I'm sick every time I utter one of my half-formed pompous phrases? I know your own voice is supposed to sound weird to you, but really.
At any rate, your visit was definitely the highlight of my week. Thank you for stopping by (and going into Pizza Hut with me, even though Jordan was sick)!
And just so our viewers know, I'm not actually trying to leave Jordan and Marisa behind in the downtown area---it's just that we were running slightly late for their train.
@Matt: Hah, triple-post wonder! Anyway... no, I most certainly am planning to eat fugu with you. Even if we get one of really hoity-toity chefs who leaves some of the poison in the fish, it shouldn't be as unpleasant as the jellyfish. Fugu poison causes numbness (and mild tingling like your mouth's fallen asleep); jellyfish poison causes painful stinging.
@Others: I'm not sure where one would go to intentionally get jellyfish here. in my case some Koreans took me to a high-class restaurant and they happened to put it on the table. (The Koreans didn't eat it.) Since it's a side dish I'm not really sure if you can order it or request it; at most traditional Korean restaurants you go in, ask for a meal, and eat what they give you.
I think you're right, Doug. That totally sounds like one of those things that no matter how bad someone says it is, and despite the fact that you believe them, part of you (or part of me, at any rate) just screams, "But I MUST!"
Well, Jordan, I guess Matthew has thrown the gauntlet, issuing you a cultural (TCK) challenge. I assume that you will rise to the occasion (much as you did when eating the demon icore that Matthew gave you, which nearly destroyed your digestive system)...
In fact, when I visit Korea in the spring (in sha'allah), I may rise to the challenge myself...
Well, Matthew, I have to hand it to you for your excellent cultural adaptation, for after all, what would people think if you were going around in just your underwear (figuratively or literally)?
I hope you (and Jordan & Marisa) get to ski this winter. When's skiing season? We may need to try to plan our (hoped for) visit around that. :-)
Alas, Koreans do not wear shorts at all. When I hinted to one of my co-teachers that next summer (when it's 90 degrees and the humidity is at 100%) I might wear some nice shorts in public, she reacted as if I'd informed her I was going to go about in nothing but my underwear. So I've just been wearing my shorts in my room, and long pants elsewhere. As for shirts, I've got a mix of long- and short-sleeved dress shirts, and right now it's cold enough that I'm comfortable in my long-sleeved shirts. The Koreans, of course, are bundled up in huge fur-lined jackets in the classroom and keep on telling me that I must be cold.
As for skiing, I'm right next to a skii area! It's dirt cheap (like most things here) and one of my Chungju acquaintances goes there every weekend in the winter, so I'm looking forward to the beginning of the season.
So, do they have skiing anywhere (or is it virtual, like golf)?
I've decided I must post every time Matthew does, to make an impression and to keep up. Which will be hard - who can keep pace with Matthew?
And Matthew (oh, no, you might answer, and then I will need to post again), do you wear long sleeves and long pants in Korea? Is that for the image (Koreans don't wear shorts & short sleeves all winter?) or because you have changed?
Hi again. Matthew, this is for you - thanks for your comments. You are a wealth of information about Korean culture and happenings. Where do you gain all your knowledge?
And what happened to your blog site, which mysteriously disappeared just when we were learning so much? We want a return of your site! :-)
Isn't it amazing how much of our lives revolve around food? Yes, I could chop food for you to put in your pot, Marisa, but no animal stuff. But then we wouldn't have time to bead so, maybe we can get Jordan and Dad to do the chopping and cooking. (And Erica too, since she doesn't like to bead either but does like to cook.) Maybe Doug would like to join in, too, and you all could have a discussion about "cut the cheese" which I think is an idiom. Idioms are great fun to talk about and many languages have them. And of course, the meaning often changes since it is not a literal meaning. Doug is probably right that "cut the cheese" is a midwest idiom. I keep a list of idioms on the wall in my classroom and the 6th graders really get into finding new ones and then guessing what they mean. Literature from easy picture books to novels are full of idioms. You might have some fun with these in class.
I agree with Doug that Marisa and Jordan should author and illustrate a children's book together. Multiculturalism is really big right now and you will have a first hand experience of Korea.
You have really neat Korean hosts, too. What an experience!
Thanks, Matthew, that's interesting. Our Korean visitor said he had tried to introduce the American casual pattern of referring to people by only their first name (he lived for 15 years in the States), but other Koreans thought he was mad at the people he was addressing in that way, as he said that as a general pattern, the only time a Korean calls another Korean by only their first name is when a superior is mad at someone under them.
It all sounds complicated and a bit precarious. Fortunately, I'm sure they tend to cut foreigners some slack (which, Jordan, is decidedly different than cutting the cheese! :-).
It is quite true that Korean places much more emphasis on titles than English does, and that in a one-on-one situation you can get by without knowing the addressee's actual name. For instance, in class students always call their teacher "seonsaengnim" ("teacher"), which is why they tend to shout "teacher! teacher!" when they want my attention. Technically I should never refer to my principal or vice-principal by any but those titles. You also use only titles when talking to family members (mother, sister, etc... Korean actually has two different words each for "older brother" and "older sister" depending on whether the speaker is male or female, and there are no fewer than five words for "uncle" depending on whether it's your mother or father's brother, and whether it's your mother or father's older brother, younger brother, or brother by marriage!) and these same titles can be applied to random people on the street if you don't know their names. Every male a little bit older than you is your brother and can be "oppa" (if you're a woman) or "hyeong" (if you're a man), and every old woman is "halmeoni" ("grandmother").
However, in Korea it's actually more important that you know someone's name when you're referring to them in the third person. You still use the titles as suffixes, but if I'm talking to one teacher about another teacher at the school, there's no way to make myself understood unless I can say (for example) "Kim Eunki-seonsaengnim told me x" or "I was talking to Yu Hyosuk-seonsaengnim and..." If I don't know the person's name and I try to describe them, I get a string of attempts to confirm who it is and if I don't say "yes" to one of the Korean names that flies by no description will convince them that I mean who they think I might mean. This is particularly problematic because so many people share the same last name; I can't simply say "Mr. Bak" (which is technically how "Park" should be Romanized and pronounced) or "Mrs. I" (which is technically how "Lee" should be Romanized and pronounced) or "Ms. Kim," because more than half of the people at any given institution in Korea are named one of those three things.
I have been told that attempting to call someone by only their last name is something only superiors can do, and that many bosses in Korea have adopted the habit of calling their subordinates by the English titles "Mr. Kim" or "Mrs. Kim." So technically whenever I refer to my teachers this way, I'm actually showing disrespect! Fortunately, I was told in my first week that the Koreans were totally cool with it, and now my calling people "Mr." and "Mrs." seems to have become a part of my Korean personality.
I should stress that all of this is "as I understand it," that is, as I have read about it or based on what Koreans have told me. I'll stop for tonight and give Jordan and Marisa a chance to give their own responses, but I did want to mention that kimchi is an equally interesting and complicated topic: just consider that until recently the hot pepper that is now so integral to the Kimchi-making process was unknown in Asia...!
We recently had a Korean visitor overnight in Amman (late 40s male), who informed us that you don't generally use peoples' names, but rather titles; and that the title / form of address will be based on age and position. Something you guys need to do some research into (and then write about for our benefit). I think it would be complicated, coming from a very "flat" / egalitarian society as we do.
And by the way, Patti had never heard "to cut the cheese," either. Maybe it's a Minnesotan (or, I suspect, Iowan, which crept north) expression?
So, was the "Performance Feminine Fashion" in the pictures, a clothing store or something else? If a clothing store, did Marisa purchase some of that performance feminine fashion?
Marisa, you really should write a series of children's books. It could be the "Marisa & Jordan" series. The first one can be "Marisa & Jordan meet at Bethel, fall in love, and get married." The next one could be "Marisa & Jordan's North Carolina Adventure." Now you could work on "Marisa & Jordan teach English in Korea." You could even have one on your honeymoon, etc. Seriously (except for the titles). You have a great writing voice, and would be an excellent children's lit writer. You & Jordan could illustrate your stories. You ought to do it, really. I'm convinced you'll be a big hit.
We're thrilled you're getting such great cultural/relational adventures. I agree that kimchee is a very interesting phenomenon. Do you know it's history?
Ooh, that sounds like an excellent experience! I've never once regretted taking anyone in Korea up on an offer to do something non-work-related; Korean hospitality is sincere, thorough, and usually delicious. Now I want to go to Jeonju...
I hope that Gunsan does have a pedestrianized downtown area, but I must tell you that it is not a universal feature in Korean cities---for example, Cheongju (which has the same sort of feel as Gunsan) only has a cluster of back alleys surrounding the Dream Plus mall.
I'm not very surprised that you didn't actually learn anyone's name. For some reason, most Koreans tend not to introduce themselves or to say their names once, very quickly, and never use them again. I think that I actually know the names of maybe 25% of the people I interact with on a daily basis, which I feel kind of bad about. (One tactic is to swap e-mail addresses and check the "from" field...)
And yes, it is very strange that Jordan does not know the construction, "to cut the cheese."
In any case I'm quite happy we don't have mean old ladies. I met another nice one at the bus stop yesterday. I think she was trying to ask me where the bus went. Alas, I speak no Korean and just looked at her helplessly, but she didn't attack me with her purse after, so I figure she must be nice.
Actually the thing about mean old ladies in Korea is quite reliably attested to, but it seems to be a primarily Seoul... Seoulite? Seoulian? whatever... phenomenon. I can say that the day I landed a little old lady started fighting to the front of the immigration line, and that once when I was boarding an intercity bus another little old lady shoved her way in front of me (which struck me as extremely odd since these buses have reserved seats). But I haven't seen any of the reported instances of little old ladies simply smiting people down with their heavy handbags. I suppose that Chungju also has a nice elderly population...
We hadn't heard the song before - just watched it (from the '88 Grammy awards) on You Tube. Fun song. Did you print out the words for the students?
So, Marisa, you have that smooth Bible teacher voice that puts people to sleep? Or is it just Korean middle schoolers? Does it work for all your students? I think this calls for more experimentation on your part, to determine who exactly is affected by your voice, and why...
And hurray for the nice old people of Gunsan. Perhaps the other people you've heard from are actually spreading vicious rumors about old people...
Okay, Tall Jo, what is Marisa's nickname?
We are all about incredibly cute. It's our number one.
I'd just like to add that I feel no need to prove anything and therefore won't be eating jellyfish. I can think of few things I like less than jellyfish. Where are their brains? They're like swimming jelly.
...And now you've put up an extremely cool slideshow with pictures of the mountains and waterfowl and angels and everything, so please disregard my plaintive whines in the previous post and go check out Jordan pumping iron. (Within the constraints of the little cage that prevents him from stealing the barbell, of course.)
Also, that picture of Donguri on your Flikr album is incredibly cute.
You've done a great job of capturing the feel of my city (although it's a pity that the mountains become largely invisible thanks to Youtube's video resolution... which is not your fault). But why do I sound like I'm sick every time I utter one of my half-formed pompous phrases? I know your own voice is supposed to sound weird to you, but really.
At any rate, your visit was definitely the highlight of my week. Thank you for stopping by (and going into Pizza Hut with me, even though Jordan was sick)!
And just so our viewers know, I'm not actually trying to leave Jordan and Marisa behind in the downtown area---it's just that we were running slightly late for their train.
PS: Did that TV cable work out?
@Matthew #1: If you're not going to have your own blog, well, your emails might just end up on ours. Is that a threat? Hm... take it as you will.
@Matt: Hah, triple-post wonder! Anyway... no, I most certainly am planning to eat fugu with you. Even if we get one of really hoity-toity chefs who leaves some of the poison in the fish, it shouldn't be as unpleasant as the jellyfish. Fugu poison causes numbness (and mild tingling like your mouth's fallen asleep); jellyfish poison causes painful stinging.
@Others: I'm not sure where one would go to intentionally get jellyfish here. in my case some Koreans took me to a high-class restaurant and they happened to put it on the table. (The Koreans didn't eat it.) Since it's a side dish I'm not really sure if you can order it or request it; at most traditional Korean restaurants you go in, ask for a meal, and eat what they give you.
I think you're right, Doug. That totally sounds like one of those things that no matter how bad someone says it is, and despite the fact that you believe them, part of you (or part of me, at any rate) just screams, "But I MUST!"
Well, Jordan, I guess Matthew has thrown the gauntlet, issuing you a cultural (TCK) challenge. I assume that you will rise to the occasion (much as you did when eating the demon icore that Matthew gave you, which nearly destroyed your digestive system)...
In fact, when I visit Korea in the spring (in sha'allah), I may rise to the challenge myself...
Yet another comment from "Matthew". So I take it your not going to try Fugu with me in Japan?
I seem to have unintentionally annexed this blog. My apologies.
Well, Matthew, I have to hand it to you for your excellent cultural adaptation, for after all, what would people think if you were going around in just your underwear (figuratively or literally)?
I hope you (and Jordan & Marisa) get to ski this winter. When's skiing season? We may need to try to plan our (hoped for) visit around that. :-)
Alas, Koreans do not wear shorts at all. When I hinted to one of my co-teachers that next summer (when it's 90 degrees and the humidity is at 100%) I might wear some nice shorts in public, she reacted as if I'd informed her I was going to go about in nothing but my underwear. So I've just been wearing my shorts in my room, and long pants elsewhere. As for shirts, I've got a mix of long- and short-sleeved dress shirts, and right now it's cold enough that I'm comfortable in my long-sleeved shirts. The Koreans, of course, are bundled up in huge fur-lined jackets in the classroom and keep on telling me that I must be cold.
As for skiing, I'm right next to a skii area! It's dirt cheap (like most things here) and one of my Chungju acquaintances goes there every weekend in the winter, so I'm looking forward to the beginning of the season.
So, do they have skiing anywhere (or is it virtual, like golf)?
I've decided I must post every time Matthew does, to make an impression and to keep up. Which will be hard - who can keep pace with Matthew?
And Matthew (oh, no, you might answer, and then I will need to post again), do you wear long sleeves and long pants in Korea? Is that for the image (Koreans don't wear shorts & short sleeves all winter?) or because you have changed?
Hi again. Matthew, this is for you - thanks for your comments. You are a wealth of information about Korean culture and happenings. Where do you gain all your knowledge?
And what happened to your blog site, which mysteriously disappeared just when we were learning so much? We want a return of your site! :-)